| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1027
   |
Posted - 2012.03.06 21:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Sounds like justified plan - green light on.
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1027
|
Posted - 2012.03.06 21:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
There should not be free skill points awarded. This should be done like previously.
Skill points from trained skills which are removed should be reimposed and value of those skill books returned as isk.
Players can then choose how to redistribute their points how they like. They don't even need to put them back to ship skills if they don't want.
It is likely that some won't be able to fly all racial variants after this before some additional training, but in the end this will be same for everyone.
Any other method will cause more harm than this one. Extra skillpoints for some will cause jita protest or worse.
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1027
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 02:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
There is 3 choises. Choose your poison as at least I can't see other options out there
1) They reimburse the removed skills points and people can redistribute then so, that you can fly 1 faction with same skill level like before. It will be same for everyone. Points can be also used to some totally unrelated skill. Some other remotely related spaceship skills could also be reimbursed on same go to prevent so called "wasted" points
2) They reimburse the removed skills points and people can redistribute then so, that everyone can fly all 4 factions with same skill level than before. In other words people get 4x refund from these skills. It will not be same for everyone as remaining training time will be 4x greater to those who didn't have the original skills at 5. Also 4x more points from 1 million is 4million and 4x more points from 0,5 million is 2million... In other words some people would get more points than others. Also in this case points can be used to some totally unrelated skill if preferred to do so. Some other remotely related spaceship skills could also be reimbursed on same go to prevent so called "wasted" points
3) Forced change. L5 clients get to fly all factions with max skills. Non maxed clients get to fly all factions with the skill level they had. Training time of individual new skills will be 4x shorter than before to make it even for all. Also in this case points can be used to some totally unrelated skill if preferred to do so. Some other remotely related spaceship skills could also be reimbursed on same go to prevent so called "wasted" points
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1027
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 03:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
Newer players that do not have those skills already have lost.... literally.... nothing. They will need to make wiser decisions when they get to that point than older players had to, this is true. It is also true that newer players have significant advantages in gaining skill points compared to older players.
4x 1 million SP = 4 million SP
4x 0,5 million SP = 2 million SP
Player A gets 2 million more bonus SP than player B.
Player B realizes this and goes kaboom.
Then next day player B realizes also that he needs 4x more training time to get to same point which A reached with 4x less effort. Then he goes helldeathkaboom.
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1029
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 03:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Harrigan VonStudly wrote:Just so I have this right.
There are many who think that it is ok to have to retrain what has already been planned, bought, and time spent training because we will be given the isk back and sp needed to retrain what we've already spec'd out and trained ALREADY ?
So you're ok with big brother (CCP) taking what you have already earned and making you do it over again because it's, well, only a little bit of time? Am I reading right?
As the choises are here I am thinking that option one is least bad choice. So yes.
Obviously if they do it right, big part of entire spaceship command skilltree will be reimbursed and most likely some no longer needed skills can be used to compensate towards the 3 new factions. Even without those there should be enough points to get all destro and bc skills up to level 4 if original skill was capped. This means that you can fly all factions tech 1 variants but not necessarily tech 2.
This skill reimbursement part of this plan is really something where you just have to pick the least bad option and live with it. Personally I don't see this a reason why entire plan should be cancelled as there is plenty of potential for good stuff when discussed and implemented properly.
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1029
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 03:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Moraguth wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:Harrigan VonStudly wrote:Just so I have this right.
There are many who think that it is ok to have to retrain what has already been planned, bought, and time spent training because we will be given the isk back and sp needed to retrain what we've already spec'd out and trained ALREADY ?
So you're ok with big brother (CCP) taking what you have already earned and making you do it over again because it's, well, only a little bit of time? Am I reading right? As the choises are here I am thinking that option one is least bad choice. So yes. Obviously if they do it right, big part of entire spaceship command skilltree will be reimbursed and most likely some no longer needed skills can be used to compensate towards the 3 new factions. Even without those there should be enough points to get all destro and bc skills up to level 4 if original skill was capped. This means that you can fly all factions tech 1 variants but not necessarily tech 2. This skill reimbursement part of this plan is really something where you just have to pick the least bad option and live with it. Personally I don't see this a reason why entire plan should be cancelled as there is plenty of potential for good stuff when discussed and implemented properly. Grey, I have two things to tell you. First off, the word you're looking for is choices, not choises. I noticed it the first time you used it a few pages ago, but since you did it twice, it obviously needs to be brought to your attention. Secondly, go back to the first page and read the posts there please. You are spreading speculation that is completely contrary to what the DEVs have said. Thanks!
Thank you for reminding me that engrish is not my native language....
...and yes I am well aware that they have said that people will continue to be able to fly same ships they have been able before. However I am not so sure how they will keep this promise without donating more skill points to those with higher BC/Destro skills than to those who don't have them capped. Also the fact that training towards those would take 4x longer after the change gives me full right to speculate with the promise they made.
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1030
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 03:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:Moraguth wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:Harrigan VonStudly wrote:Just so I have this right.
There are many who think that it is ok to have to retrain what has already been planned, bought, and time spent training because we will be given the isk back and sp needed to retrain what we've already spec'd out and trained ALREADY ?
So you're ok with big brother (CCP) taking what you have already earned and making you do it over again because it's, well, only a little bit of time? Am I reading right? As the choises are here I am thinking that option one is least bad choice. So yes. Obviously if they do it right, big part of entire spaceship command skilltree will be reimbursed and most likely some no longer needed skills can be used to compensate towards the 3 new factions. Even without those there should be enough points to get all destro and bc skills up to level 4 if original skill was capped. This means that you can fly all factions tech 1 variants but not necessarily tech 2. This skill reimbursement part of this plan is really something where you just have to pick the least bad option and live with it. Personally I don't see this a reason why entire plan should be cancelled as there is plenty of potential for good stuff when discussed and implemented properly. Grey, I have two things to tell you. First off, the word you're looking for is choices, not choises. I noticed it the first time you used it a few pages ago, but since you did it twice, it obviously needs to be brought to your attention. Secondly, go back to the first page and read the posts there please. You are spreading speculation that is completely contrary to what the DEVs have said. Thanks! Thank you for reminding me that engrish is not my native language.... ...and yes I am well aware that they have said that people will continue to be able to fly same ships they have been able before. However I am not so sure how they will keep this promise without donating 4x more skill points to those with higher BC/Destro skills than to those who don't have them capped. Also the fact that training towards those would take 4x longer after the change gives me full right to speculate with the promise they made. I have no issue believing it as the only thing I'll really be gaining is higher clone costs. 4x more SP, if specifically allocated into the newly separated skills provides no benefit to the receiver. It's really the only way to keep their promise if that promise includes command ships and interdictors.
I wish it would be this simple. Those skill points are still at your character, increase your characters value and may be reusable some point in the future. Also the fact that after the change new player needs 4 times more training time to get into the point where you are already,,, This is really unfair and goes to wrong direction really.
I am not saying what CCP has to do here - just trying to raise related stuff up for discussion and to be notified when decisions are being made.
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1031
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 04:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
It is time for mandatory
[img]http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/files/2011/11/pony.jpg[/img]
to make this thread officially important.
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1040
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 09:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.
As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.
it not just not appealing its crazy. pre patch i can fly all cs's and all dic's. post patch im ******. i either pick to fly a claymore or damnation or a vulture (eos is **** anyhow) and then im screwed for the next 80 odd days retraining for ships i could already fly. you either reduce the ranks of the destroyer and bc skills so reimbursed skill points from the old cover all 4 races, or you just give people all 4 races. We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place.
Yea just make sure that everyone get same amount of "little extra" as in:
Player A gets reimbursed 1 million skill points from his previous skill. That get multiplied by 4 to match new multi faction skill. This = 3 million new free skill points*
Player B doesn't have the skills at all and gets 0 skills as reimbursement. That gets multiplied by 4 and is still 0. This is 3 million new skill points less than player A got*
Player A gets reimbursed 0,5 million skill points from his previous skill. That get multiplied by 4 to match new multi faction skill. This = 1,5 million new free skill points and still 1,5 million less than player A got*
*skill point amounts are fictional but provide their point in their context.
How are you going to deal with this?
1) Shall all players receive same amount of free NEW skill points?
2) ... or are you going to provide those free skill points by making the new skills 4 times faster to train?
3) ... or something else what I yet fail to see?
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1040
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 15:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪalso, since I missed it the first time: The Gonif wrote:A lot of people have posted concerns about skill point inflation. The argument typically goes something like this: Evanga wrote:
I thought that was too good to be true:
BC V = 1.5m sp
Dessie V = 0.5 m sp
All Racial BC V & Dessie V == 8 m sp... a 6 m sp boost is an assload of sp to just "give out". That's about 4 Months of free SP's....
I'm sorry, even as a vet, I just don't think we deserve that type of boost.
You're quite right: this is not a matter of inflation GÇö it's actually a case of equilibrium. Yes, the amount of SP goes up, but so does the cost of the skills GÇö end result: nothing happens. Ok, that's not entirely true. What actually happens is that people get more expensive clones. The entire notion of GÇ£SP inflationGÇ£ highest on the idea that total SP has any value. It doesn't. In fact, total SP is a detriment because it has exactly one effect on the game: it determines which clone you need to use in order not to lose SP. Giving people SP is not the boost Evanga thinks it is GÇö it's actually something of a nerf since you gain nothing from it and lose a fair amount of additional skillpoints you can keep in your clone.
As long every single player in EVE gets same amount of these NEW skill points, this is not a problem.
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1040
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 15:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:As long every single player in EVE gets same amount of these NEW skill points, this is not a problem. It's not even as complicated as that. As I keep reiterating every time new players come and complain about how they can never GÇ£catch upGÇ¥ with old players, SP amounts don't really matter GÇö what matters is ability. SP is a way to unlock those abilities, and as long as the abilities of two people are the same, the amount of SP is irrelevant. Same goes here: it doesn't matter if every EVE character gets the same amount of SP GÇö what matters is that every EVE character gets the same abilityGǪ
And I disagree with passion as after the abilities have been "unlocked" to match the previous training state, the players who did not have those abilities at level 5 will have to spend 4 times longer training them to get where L5 clients got without any extra cost.
This is not same - this is unfair and really impossible to pull off without pissing every single character who doesn't have these skills at level 5.
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1040
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 12:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
That means we will proceed slowly, one step at a time, starting with the ship classes that need the most love (most likely tech 1 frigates and destroyers), then moving our way up. This blog is describing future vision changes in an effort to increase transparency. We definitely want to have more blogs, discussion and feedback along the way.
Thanks for keeping us in the map and letting us to provide the comments we have. Lots of emotion in this thread and around this issue, but it will end up fine when corner stones find their places.
Get |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1040
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 13:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:CCP Ytterbium? I don't suppose I could get you to say that it won't be an SP reimbursement, but instead just sticking the new skills onto people, at the appropriate level? I'm pretty sure that's what you've been meaning, but it's also obvious some people are thinking they'll get the chance to respend the points at will.
As for Destroyers:
Typically, a destroyer is a fleet defense boat. It already handles the anti-frigate line ok, so how about something for handling fleet missile defense? Or maybe an E-Warfare role.
Maybe something cloaky or Bomb defense related?
Well reimbursement is tricky, can't say about details yet, because we still need to think about them. Whatever this is going to be SP reimbursement or just sticking new skills, or whatever options in the middle still need to be considered. Funny, I got somebody suggesting the very same idea regarding destroyers having a fleet defense role to me during lunch  *insert tinfoil hat theory here*
If defender missiles would target any incoming unfriendly missile (including those heading towards fleet members too), this kind of role would be rather easy to create. It would also work in certain type of pve content.
Get |
| |
|